In having another somewhat exasperating conversation with a co-worker about my atheism, I had a epiphany. Actually, the conversation wasn't that exasperating but I do get a bit miffed having to defend the null hypothesis. More on that in a bit.
My epiphany, and forgive me for being slow to catch on, was that forgiveness is absolutely the greatest concept ever invented by religion. It occurred to me that every time I have conversation with a religious person, mainly Christians, everything gets explained away by the concept of forgiveness. People don't have to actually behave in accordance with their beliefs because God doesn't expect you to be perfect and He forgives you for not being so. It doesn't matter what kind of absolute bastard you've been in you've life, if you get "saved" and pray for forgiveness, you've got a clean slate.
Many Christians spend a lot of their time thinking about how other people should behave. They have even formed coalitions to prod the government into legislating the way people behave. But when you point out that their own behavior is often in conflict with their pronouncements, the issue of forgiveness inevitably comes up if you press hard enough. It's such a convenient tool. I read today that one of the fat talking heads on The View admitted that she previously slept around with a lot of men and "had more abortions than I can count." Of course, that's all okay because she found God and is now a Christian. Not only that, but she thinks some of the more outspoken female Christian leaders would even be able to help save Barbara Walters. I'm no big fan of Babs but I'm not sure what she's done that's worse than multiple abortions.
I understand that people can be on the wrong path in life. I understand that they can do things they regret and in order to make peace with themselves and live a better life, they need forgiveness. Primarily they need to forgive themselves and if it helps to believe that a magical guy in the sky forgives you too, so be it. But I don't think divine forgiveness can be wielded as a tool, as some people do, to get out of making hard choices and putting your money where your mouth is. I'm also not sure it can be used to wipe away multiple murders. But it is a fantastic invention to keep people faithful. I mean, how many Christians would be left if there was no such thing as forgiveness?
Regarding the null hypothesis, when I talk with many religious people they seem to want to treat religion differently than every other topic. Put simply and unoriginally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When people hear I'm an atheist, I'm often asked to defend my disbelief. We don't do this with anything else in the world. I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster. No one asks me to prove that it doesn't exist. Instead, we ask the believers to prove that it does. In science, the null hypothesis is the absence of an experimental effect. It is the presumed state until objective evidence proves otherwise. Given the absence of tangible, physical evidence for the existence of God, the null hypothesis is that God does not exist. One does not have to prove the null, it has to be disproven. This is now the approach I take when discussing the topic. I no longer try to prove my point and instead ask to see the proof that those making the claim have to offer. Like the Amazing Randi's quest for proof of psychic ability, I've yet to have anyone provide any such proof.
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4 comments:
Those religious discussions with co-workers can get very testy. The last time I indulged in a conversation like that, I was informed that without Jesus it was impossible for me to have any morals or ethics. This was from a subordinate, and a person I was otherwise friends with, not from someone who hated me and was trying to insult me.
That concept of forgiveness is something that gets people in trouble all the time. If they think that all they have to do is say they are sorry, that they can be forgiven (either by God or by the people they have wronged) and then everything is ducky again. Sometimes they are sorry and sometimes they just say it, and it's supposed to count in either case. A person could even commit murder and get it OK'd by being forgiven (at least by the Big Guy, maybe not The Law).
These people do a lot of "getting forgiven" for things, but the thing that they are unlikely to ever do is forgive. Most people never forgive those who have done them wrong. Sometimes they shouldn't do it, but that is another issue. The point is that they never do it! They quit, they leave, they sue, they take revenge, they shun. They don't forgive, it's the nature of people. Forgiveness has to be learned. It's something that Jesus taught -- in some of the writings -- in others he's very different. That's scripture for you! Enough contradictions to please everybody at least some of the time. ;-)
I don't like religious discussions with anyone who is on the attack, having to prove their belief system is right and mine is wrong.
Forgiveness is an interesting topic. First, forgiveness cannot come without real change - and my experience in AA is what drives this response, drdon. Amend means "make right by change" - it is not about saying "Sorry" and then doing the same damn thing again. So when someone makes an amend to me, for a wrong done me, who am I to not accept that change? Isn't that what forgiveness is about?
On the other hand, I've learned that if I am the one making an amend, I do it without expectation or hope that it will be accepted. I do it to change my behavior. I do it to find good, orderly direction. Isn't that self-forgiveness?
It's as Blueberry says, though - without change, saying "I'm sorry" is meaningless.
Blue - I always love the morality argument. So your co-worker apparently believes that no one had ethics or morals prior to 2,000 years ago? It just makes no sense. I also like your point that forgiveness also means forgiving others. I overlooked that and it's a big omission.
Both my friend and I have been through the wringer with relationships lately and, coincidentally, last night I told him that it would be easy to become a self-centered person who just takes and takes and never has empathy for the other person. There's a lot of that in today's world. But it's just not in my makeup. I really believe that we have to help people even if they've hurt us. Funny that an atheist seems to have more of a "Christian" sensibility than many Christians.
Diva - You're absolutely right. As a shrink, it was always clear to me how words without action mean nothing. I'm not sure I agree about proving one belief right or wrong. That's the scientist in me. If one person believes in E=MC2 and another doesn't, every effort should be made to find the truth because I see no benefit to holding a false belief. Since organized religion impacts so much of our life, especially in America, I think there is an imperitive for believers to prove that there is validity to what they say. If there is none, then maybe many of their ideological stances also have no validity and that could potentially change society.
Most folks are too lazy to prove what they say, or walk the talk. If people actually burned a little cerebral motor oil over some of the things they say, the world would be a different place. My mother used to say, "Engage brain before opening mouth." It may sound mean, but I've even told my kids, "Look. We've had this same discussion too many times. I don't want to hear you say you're sorry. I want you to not do this the next time." I say it with all the dead seriousness I can muster, because there's no worse nightmare to me than my kids growing up on autopilot like so many of the people around them. We're all drilled to be apologetic but not sincere. So before its all over we don't even know why we're apologizing.
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